Daniel Pipes has an interesting idea for a way to keep coalition troops in Iraq for the required work...but take them out of the center of the bullseye by removing them from the hot zones.
His point: Iraqis have to fix the problem of their internal strife. It's not OUR job.
It makes our guys safer. It lowers their profile, which should help reduce their identification as "occupiers" and reduce the incitement potential of their presence. It makes the Iraqi's responsible for cleaning up their own mess, internally, while we concentrate on making sure the oil flows, the water flows, the borders are secure...and no new Saddam clone takes over.
Pipes points out that we really don't have to rebuild and rehabilitate and police a country that we invade. It's just a bad habit we've gotten into. Time to give it a rest.
The Gunslinger
Joebama American citizens 2024 print
7 months ago
Pipes points out that we really don't have to rebuild and rehabilitate and police a country that we invade.
ReplyDeleteI see. Seems a rather less innocuous word than, say, destroy -- "invade" -- doesn't it? Trouble is, a lot of bombing went on ('Shock and Awe') before the invasion, and there's been a good deal of it since as well, not to mention all the shooting that normally goes on during an invasion. Or the death and human suffering. All of which would be ameliorated by some post-invasion help, and perhaps lead to more Iraqis, you know, actually liking us (aka the nation that invaded and destroyed their country) a bit better than you'd normally expect. Some advanced thinkers -- a group of people that does not include Pipes, apparently -- might also see this as important for the 'War on Terror' generally.
Pipes is a real gem of a human being -- a fine example of the too many latter day ("collateral damage") versions of The Ugly American that we seem to have around. One of the worst of the neocon Jews.
"Trouble is", no one in the history of the world ever gave back the land they conquered in a war they won, let alone helped the enemy rebuild it!
ReplyDeleteThat's an American invention.
The normal course of events: Invade, conquer, keep, rule in one's own best interests, oppressing the "natives" if necessary and convenient.
We are saints. And if the cost in blood and treasure becomes too much because the people whom we defeated, (yet, allowed to keep and rule their country) make it so difficult for us to HELP THEM REBUILD, I think it's fair for us to remove ourselves from the fray, as they work it out.
As...mind you, we are still maintaining border security, helping to keep the vital services operating and helping where we can.
"LIKE US"? You've GOT to be kidding! Good Lord. I can't tell you how much I don't care if anyone LIKES us! Teenage geeks worry about that. Grown up countries should not.
I'd prefer they fear us. But then, I'm just a NeoCon Jew...oh wait...I'm not a Jew...just a bloodthirsty, war lovin' jingoistic, country lovin' NeoCon.
"Trouble is", no one in the history of the world ever gave back the land they conquered in a war they won, let alone helped the enemy rebuild it!
ReplyDeleteIs that so?
Well, after WWII the US, pretty much alone, received the unconditional surrender of Japan and then occupied that country. Which means the US more or less "conquered" Japan. And then oversaw the political reconstruction of Japan, with the installation of a friendly government. And also did provide aid to help rebuild their economy. Japan was, effectively, and for all practical purposes, returned to the Japanese.
The same is basically true of West Germany.
Were the Japanese and Germans "the enemy" in these cases? How is the situation different in Iraq?
Also, in the Franco-Prussian War, France capitulated to Bismarck who then withdrew German troops from France.
Just off the top of my head.
Suppose 'x' is the number of US civilians killed on 9/11. Say 'n' is just some number, and n*x (x multiplied by n) is the number of civilians killed so far by the US military in the 'War on Terror'.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What is 'n'? Is it 10, 20, 50, ...?
The second count of the Nuremberg indictment, which the Allies used (it was one of the four counts) to hang major German figures after WWII: Crimes Against Peace, aka the planning and waging of aggressive war.
ReplyDeleteRE: Germany and Japan...that was precisely my point. The USA was the one who invented the conquer, retreat, rebuild.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say they started it in Iraq...duh
And no, I don't agree with your assessment of the reasons for the war, the idea that anyone lied, or that the Nuremburg is apropos. So there's really nothing left to say, is there.
go get em Gunslinger!.Open up a can of whoopass!.
ReplyDeleteThe USA was the one who invented the conquer, retreat, rebuild.
ReplyDeleteSo what?
That's an American invention.
As I told you, Bismarck left France. And in those days, the destruction brought by war was not so great, so there was arguably less 'rebuilding' to do.
And no, I don't agree...
Yes, it's apparent that you are relatively impervious to facts and logical argument.
As are many people these days.
Not that it's something to be proud of.
So what is your guess about what "n" is?
ReplyDeleteme me oh ask me,please,please....let me guess....n,uuuhhh,is it a letter?
ReplyDeleteShieldwall..LOL!
ReplyDeleteAnon: You miss the point entirely. You began your diatribe with the idea that it is important that people LIKE us; and spoke of rebuilding Iraq as though it was our responsibility.
I merely pointed out that in all of history , it has generally been the case that victors took the land they conqured and dispossessed & ruled the native population. They did not return the territory to the vanquished and help them rebuild it.
Implicit in your comments is the idea that the United States is behaving badly. And you seem to willfully misunderstand my point...and the evidence of history.
The United States is the best and brightest and kindest nation ever evolved. Understand, that does not mean it is PERFECT. Do not let your demand for perfection blind you to the good.
THAT's the mistake most Liberals make. They seem to hate America because it isn't perfect...which, somehow to them, makes it worse than the truly VILE countries of the world.
It's why a few disrespectful acts by guards at Abu Graib can be treated as more horrible more heinous, more worthy of condemnatiton, more newsworthy than all the torture chambers, rapre rooms, child murders and mass graves found in Saddam's Iraq.
This is twisted American vanity beyond reason...
It is the idea that WE are so great that the slightest deviation from perfection by any American or the American government is literally unthinkable, and therefore must be willful evil.
But the worst, most barbaric, depraved behavior from others is to be over-looked and forgiven...because they are so inferior to us that they can't be expected to be civilized, or held to the same standards.
And that's what I hear you saying. And I find it irrational, xenophobic, racist, and out of touch with reality, history and logic.
So there we are.
You miss the point entirely.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I don't think I do. I get the point.
I merely pointed out that in all of history , it has generally been the case that victors took the land they conqured and dispossessed & ruled the native population. They did not return the territory to the vanquished and help them rebuild it.
I just don't get the significance of it, which why I asked...
So what?
Just like Japan and West Germany after WWII, far from being some sort of unselfish act of charity, it can be seen as in the best interests of the US to help rebuild Iraq so that more Iraqis will like us.
And in general, I'm not interested in the question about whose responsibility it is to rebuild Iraq -- I can see how a case can be made both ways.
Shieldwall..LOL!
My point in asking about the multiplier 'n' -- "duh" -- is to show/remind that at this point the US military has now killed tens of thousands -- more if you believe the recent study -- of civilians, all in the name of the 'War on Terror'. A total, no doubt, as grossly disproportionate to the number of combatants as during the wanton slaughter of civilians via carpet bombing during WWII. Not to mention the many more who've been maimed for life, including thousands of US military. And for what?
Making such a comment about the infantile non-contribution of "Shieldwall" regarding these deaths is telling.
I do not tend to wring my hands together and feel pity for the Iraqis,it is evident that most deaths amongst them are due to nutters blowing themselves up and in fighting between themselves,American and British servicemen/women have acted on the whole admirably,my own personal opinion is pull out and let them kill each other,lets be honest they will never be tamed or humane,and is it honestly worth any more Western blood,stats and equations are great for baffling the public,lets have common sense talk that Joe public understands anon,cut the text book crap and inform us on your opinion Mr/Mrs Learned!.
ReplyDeleteShieldwall,
ReplyDeleteMr. Anonymous has revealed he's a bolshevik leftie, with his absurd "evidence" from Media Matters website.
We should have known when he started to get snide and snotty and call us names. It's their style, you know...they have no argument, so they try to dazzle with bullshit...and when that doesn't work, they get pissed (American: angry) and start with the personal insults and name-calling.
It's all so predictable.
Shieldwall--I didn't even respond to this nonsense. It's a typica Liberal tactic...if they can't deal with the current discussion...they try to change the subject, create a diversion, move the goalposts.
ReplyDeleteNever let them get away with it.
yes I know,but it was the "self important attitude" and "I am better than you",that really got my back up,they always try to baffle the public with bullshit and stats,talk sense you deceiver!.
ReplyDelete