I was raised a Catholic and the following three things were inarguable doctrine:
1. God Is All-Good.
2. God Is All-Knowing.
3. Hell Exists, In Which Human Souls Are Eternally Punished.
THE QUESTION:
"How can all those be true? They are logically incompatible."
If God is "all-knowing", before He creates any single human being He would know that that human will commit sins that will consign him to EVERLASTING suffering in HELL
No reprieve EVER...burning ETERNALLY.
What kind of "All-Good" God would create that person? He'd be a sadistic MONSTER.
Who could possibly worship Him? No thank you.
-—-—-—-
An addendum: How is ETERNAL punishment suitable for any TEMPORAL crime?
/gun
When you ponder it and then realize that churches and preists are just another form of government, it all makes sense. (note I said churches and preists, not religion and god.)
ReplyDeleteAgreed. At the same time, Christianity has done MUCH to civilize the world. There is a lot of good in it. I just can't get past the EVIL nature ascribed to a God who would create people He knows—in advance—will choose the wrong path and end up in Hell for ETERNITY.
DeleteHow an I possibly consider Him a "Good God"? Something is so wrong with this picture!
You are forgetting a few important things. God is beyond space, time, matter and energy. He is not confined to a linear experience in time as we are.
ReplyDeleteGod did not create robots, but beings in His image with free will. Without the existence of evil, free will is meaningless. It isn't about something as trivial as choosing chocolate or vanilla ice cream, but about choosing to be with God or to separate ourselves from God. You must choose Hell, a place created for those who make the choice to be separated from God. God made your soul eternal and has told you that. No one should be surprised that rejection of God leads to an eternity in Hell.
Finally, we are all sinners, whether we are religious or not. None of us can match the perfection and goodness of God. Believers know that and that is why they accept salvation through Christ. It doesn't mean that they stop sinning but they must make the sincere effort to reject sin, and God knows if they are making that effort.
I too was raised Catholic; baptized, First Communion and Confirmation. I attended CCD regularly and never recall a single discussion of Biblical doctrine. It was all about church doctrine. When I began to become acquainted with the Bible is when I became an ex-Catholic. You don't get to heaven by your good works or being good. It's simply not good enough.
Why create people who will choose badly. Seems cruel. Especially since He knows what they'll do before they do themselves.
DeleteIndeed...why create people who are not already in heaven hanging out at all? What is the point of humans? What is God's POINT?
Creation was for the pleasure of God, that He could have fellowship with thinking beings who could accept or reject His love. God did create heaven on earth, the Garden of Eden, and did "hang out" with man. There was no death, no disease, no suffering, no thorns, no pests. Our purpose is to have fellowship with God and all the pleasure it brings, if we choose to.
DeleteThat's the short answer. Here is a link to a more complete answer:
https://www.icr.org/article/537/
Just one more thing. God created the first humans and after that it was a matter of free will to procreate more humans. God's command was to go forth and multiply. God gave us the means of procreation and left it to us to choose to follow his command.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting this and being honest about your questions around it. It definitely seems a difficult question and I don't claim to have all the answers. I do believe in God and worship Him as the one true God. I believe "God is Love", meaning He is the true embodiment of love; and the acts of love we do are a poor reflection. I know there are several theological answers to this question. But I think the important thing is for us to explore, search for the answer ourselves.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy your blog, keep up the good work.
My wife and I are now both using the "one for the road" line from your earlier blog.
Thanks, Tim!
DeleteGod allows free will. Its up to the individual to determine his fate. So God is to be blamed for someone's bad life choices?
ReplyDeleteSo what is the appropriate punishment for an abortionist who dismembers 1,000 innocent babies to sell for cosmetics?
What is the appropriate punishment for someone who knowing destroys an innocent victims reputation, life, marriage and does so knowingly and with gusto?
Seems to me that anyone who would question such a God must have led a life that isn't open to close examination.
But why create people who will choose things that will reap ETERNAL PUNISHMENT?
ReplyDeleteIsn't THAT worse than any mortal sin you can commit on Earth in a mere single lifetime?
Perhaps you should ask "what is the punishment for rejecting God?" It is what you have chosen it to be, living an eternal life in the absence of God. Living in the presence of God is light, love, peace, justice, knowledge; basically everything we identify as good, and all of which is absent in the absence of God. It's your choice to make.
DeleteI'm not arguing what behavior is appropriate for punishment, I'm saying that a "Good, All-Knowing God" would not create a soul that HE KNEW would choose behavior that would condemn him to ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.
DeleteIt makes God an asshole. And I don't want God to be an asshole.
See what I mean?
Trad Christianity says God is:
1. All Good
2. All Knowing
3. Everlasting Punishment in Hell exists.
I just don't see how all three can be true. Any two can be, but not all three.
1. God can be all Good, but NOT All knowing & Hell exists: He makes people hoping (but not knowing) they won't choose Hell.
2. God can be all Knowing, but NOT all Good & Hell exists: He makes people even though he knows they'll end up in Hell forever. (He's a sadistic asshole.)
3. God can be all Knowing and all Good & Hell does NOT exit: He creates people, say, who keep getting reincarnated until they finally figure out how to get into his divine presence; everyone is "saved".
See what I mean?
I do see what you mean but your vision is limited and your analysis incomplete. An all good God is also righteous, just and merciful. It is your 2nd conjecture that begs the question why does God allow so much suffering and evil? Is God a sadist, taking pleasure in people choosing hell over heaven? Does God take pleasure in people inflicting evil on others?
DeleteThere are two videos I think would be worth your while to watch. The first features John Lennox addressing the necessity of free will as a necessary condition for God to show nd receive love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkxRn37MGBk
The second video by John McArthur is much longer because it takes time to set the stage before answering the question. There are hundreds of such videos to explain why God allows bad things to happen, some better than others but I thought this one was the most deep and scriptural in it's explanation. The answer is blunt and may not be to your liking. Job didn't like the answer he got either and God quickly put him in his place. The video mentions this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LFzk1afiD8
Many people ask this same question--it's extremely hard to answer and hard to accept. Perhaps this will help: https://www.gotquestions.org/God-create-doomed-people.html
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link...
ReplyDelete