It seems to me we face three categories of threat in our country today. From the same enemy: the White House and the Democrat Congress:
(1) Liberty collapse through tyranny of an Imperial State (progressivism)
(2) Cultural Collapse through rampant immigration, multiculturalism and "diversity".
(3) Economic collapse through totally irresponsibly fiscal policies.
I just don't know how to counter them all.
Focusing on the individual policies, programs, votes, bills feels like an unending and losing strategy. It's playing defense all the time. Calling, faxing, demonstrating...
"Hold em back, hold em back, waaaay back"
We need a offensive (no pun intended) strategy...we need to take it to these bastards. And at the same time, set up a better system for ourselves...so when it all goes to hell, WE have something to fall back on...a foundation from which to regroup and "refound" the Republic.
Well, I suppose stating the problem is a good start.
The Gunslinger, EOTIS
Para Bellum
Joebama American citizens 2024 print
9 months ago
I've pondered this very question and the only answer I could come up with was Ghandi. Ghandi was wrong about the Jews and Nazis, but right about India and the British.
ReplyDeleteThe alternatives, such as the electoral process, won't work. I suppose I should write at length on that and how I reached that conclusion, but that is for another time.
A second Declaration of Independence may be in order, but one thing I would not change is the concluding sentence: "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." There is no painless way to end this growing tyranny.
Nothing to add re:this post...you state so well. on another note,has anyone noticed the recent increase in the term "Food Security" "problem" in the last week or so?...Methinks it's a set-up for another phony "solution",cynically timed for the holidays,and is the beginning of an attempt to change the subject,since the "HealthCareReform" thang really ain't working out.Are they gonna try to take over the food distribution industry next? "Food Security" !?!? WTF?
ReplyDeleteIs "Clothes Security" next? If we're gonna get drawn into a Kafka-esque/Orwellian nightmare,please let it be one from the A-list,not this cheap,kindergarten one! Sheesh,what an insult!!
ReplyDeleteLots of problems, no doubt about it, and since I can't fix them all, gotta pick one and hammer on it.
ReplyDeleteI figure that since we're a Nation founded on ideas, they are what are most important that we not only defend, but fight back with - I take heart that I'm right from the fact that those ideas are what the leftists are always attacking, day and night, everything they do is done to attack our fundamental ideas.
Ideas are what motivate 10,000 people to stand up. Ideas are what Sam Adams used to bring down King George in the colonies... the bullets were just side effects.
For my part, my current plan is to help people like this do what they do. And I'm putting together some presentations with quick hit questions to crack assumptions, and point people towards the info that just might split open their rocks of ignorance.
Next step is working through existing organizations, and expending much shoe leather, to snag the sleepy headed with coffee and donuts into coming to listen, present and hope a couple give a slight shake and mumble "eh? Rights and the Constitution are important? Wha?".
With luck I'll be able to convince them to swallow the red pill, so that one more sleepy citizen vanishes into a dream; it may be a long shot, but just maybe we can get enough of us can wake up to how important it is that we defend our rights from these attacks - wake enough up and this nightmare just might have a chance of being prevented.
Of course no idea is worth a damn without being tied to action, but that is where I disagree with Trubolotta on "The alternatives, such as the electoral process, won't work.".
It obviously works. Exceedingly well. That's how we got where we are now. The only problem with it is that WE have left it to the left to work it. We are the fools, and we are to blame 100% for allowing our nation to come to this.
We can take it back. We do outnumber them. We can unseat and defeat them. Look at the disorganized trial run in NY23 (which ain't over yet). Knocking on doors, talking to people, showing them how to make themselves heard and how to rattle those who require their vote, or replacing them, is where real power lies. Gun's aren't powerful - painful, yes, but not powerful. Look how pitifully weak we, the most awesome military force on the planet, are in the face of puny pipsqueaks like Iran & Venezuela.
Ideas, and people who understand them and will stand up for them, are power.
If we lose out on that, your bullets won't be worth squat. We don't need any new Declaration of Independence, we only need to reaffirm the one we've already got.
Learn. Speak. Communicate - that's how you lock n' load.
Worth a shot.
I applaud Van's enthusiasm and don't want to discourage any efort on any front, but ignoring reality may be comforting, but it's not helpful.
ReplyDeleteIdeas are powerful, but the reality is that Sam Adams' ideas got people to take up arms. Bullets were not the side-show, they were the show. All of the talk in the world would not push the British out of the American colonies. My reference to Ghandi was an observation that India gained its independence through massive civil disobedience. People went to jail, were humiliated, lost property and some lost their lives. India became ungovernable. It was the action that Ghandi's words inspired that carried the day, not his words alone.
Who was the last elected official you know that was put in power to reduce his power and actually followed through? Recall the Contract with America, its good intentions and where it actually led. We have local officials that don't respect their constitutional limits. If we can't solve that problem, how do we solve it at the state house or congress?
The elite in office don't care how many people "stand up" as long as they keep their hands in their pockets and go home at the end of the day. They don't care how much noise you make because it's only noise and they can buy more noise when the time is right. How many people actually stood up for liberty at the Washington rally, or how many were there because they feared ObamaCare would wipe away their Medicare?
Again, I don't want to discourage but I do want to inject a strong dose of reality into the discourse.
Trubolotta said "Ideas are powerful, but the reality is that Sam Adams' ideas got people to take up arms. Bullets were not the side-show, they were the show. "
ReplyDeleteDon't take this the wrong way, but...Nope. As John Adams said, the Declaration of Independence was not the start of the revolution, it marked the end of the revolution and the start of the fighting. What the Declaration of Independence showed, was that the revolution had already been won in the minds of the people.
We aren't there yet. Going to your guns at this point, would be as foolish as if Sam Adams had decided to chat up Jefferson in the early 1760's and get him to write a Declaration of Independence then... and he would have received what most of your fellow citizens will give you right now if you push for a 2nd DOI... a head shake and a "WTF are you smokin'? "
"My reference to Ghandi was an observation that India gained its independence through massive civil disobedience. "
Tea Parties are somewhat in line with that... but as I've said before, we as a country are only at a place somewhat equivelant to where we were about the mid to late 1760's... Sam Adams was able to rouse some 'Hurrah!'s, and festive events, like burning down tax collectors houses and tar and feathering and running them out of town on a rail, not enough people understood what was at stake yet. It takes time... painfully slowly tic-tocking time.
What most people miss with Ghandi, is that he only got away with his shtick because he held up the British peoples hypocrisy to their own faces in a way that they couldn't ignore... they already believed what he was saying, and finally (and it wasn't all good, btw - hence their situation now), they gave in to the reality of it. Ghandi, had he tried that in... say Nazi Germany, where he sent fan letters to, would have had his civil disobedience ended with a garroting plenty damn quick.
"Who was the last elected official you know that was put in power to reduce his power and actually followed through? "
Calvin Coolidge. And he only got so far. Because the proregressive's already had control of the educational systems for 60 years.
"We have local officials that don't respect their constitutional limits. If we can't solve that problem, how do we solve it at the state house or congress?"
Exactly. And people not only allow, but go on electing them. Why? Because they don't realize what is at stake, what the options are, and how to act on them. That needs to happen first, or any changes some lone personality pushes through, will be rolled right back in to place when he's finally gotten rid of.
(blogger break)
(cont)
ReplyDelete"They don't care how much noise you make because it's only noise and they can buy more noise when the time is right."
Again, my point exactly. Any noise that is made by people or guns, will be ignored as soon as it's safely over with. What has to be done, is make it so that it doesn't become safely over with. Emotion won't do it. Adrenalin won't do it. Understanding AND Anger, is the only way to sustain it and push it through... and it will be a long, hard, long, battle.
"How many people actually stood up for liberty at the Washington rally, or how many were there because they feared ObamaCare would wipe away their Medicare?"
And again my point. It is not true that if you scratch any American, you'll find a conservative underneath their skin. It's not even true that if you scratch any conservative, that you'll find a Conservative (Classical Liberal) under their skin. Neither is it true that you'll find an over abundance of capital "C" Conservatives beneath the skin of our people in uniform (one of whom will be my oldest 'boy', come March 9th), what you're more likely to find is someone with convictions of God and Country and the Constitution... that they expect to provide free public education, medicare, social security... etc. What you're more likely to find, is a Teddy Roosevelt progressive little 'r' republican, witness John "FRIENDS!" McCain, Lindsay "Amnesty" Graham, Robert "Call me PC" Gates... etc, etc, etc.
"Again, I don't want to discourage but I do want to inject a strong dose of reality into the discourse."
Likewise, I don't want to turn anyone off, and I certainly don't want to be a pest, but "reality" is what your argument is lacking... it's pie in the sky idealism, through and through. We've got a battle ahead of us, true, but anyone who thinks it can be won, anyone who thinks it can be won with force, passive or aggressive, anyone who thinks that America, a nation of Ideas, can be won without the people understanding those Ideas which make it possible... is impossibly naïve.
On the brighter side, we've already got the Government we want, the ideas and laws we are fighting for, in place! We only need to remind people of that, and begin clearing over a century of accreted muck off of them so that they are legible once again.
I have fought the ideological war since high school in the mid-60s, college in the late-60s and now. The outcome was never in doubt but it was a holding action. How long could ideas that demanded personal responsibility triumph over ideas that said government will take care of your every need? Ideas without action, which is conviction, don't amount to anything. Surely you must win the battle of the mind, but without the committment to action, the idea is a helpless figment of the imagination.
ReplyDeleteYou seek a painless victory. It is the fantasy you harbor. I have not once suggested violence, yet you read that into what I write. Another fantasy to say "I'm right and you are wrong." The absolute harsh reallity is that no matter how many of our fellow citizens agree with us, and most do, nothing will change because they fear losing what they have more than what they have already lost or will lose.
The ballot box is not an expression of freedom but has become an expression of self-indulgence. When the majority of your fellow countrymen mouth the words that they cherish freedom, but still want their government goodies, you have lost the war of ideas. We are on the brink. When your choice is a socialist Democrat or a closet socialist Republican, the very idea you have a choice is fallacious.
I suspect our differences are about strategy and tactics and not philosophy. That's all right with me. It is a discussion conservatives must have. All I'm saying is that from all I have read, all I have learned and all I can reason, ideas are a seed, not the plant. If I am suggesting anything, it is to cut off the life blood of government, but not without a plan and an agreeed upon result.
BTW, one thing I've learned from this thread (and some other posts) is that the Gunslinger is a feisty trouble maker. Maybe that's why I keep coming back LOL!
ReplyDeleteI love you guys....
ReplyDeleteI learn so much!
hi Gunslinger and fellow commentators... I've been reading all sorts of pro-active suggestions. Here are a few for your ponderance:
ReplyDeleteKeep an eye on outcome of the 2009 continental congress http://www.cc2009.us/ - Drkate has progress here: http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/up-all-night-for-days/
good ideas from Judge Andrew Napolitano include:
For starters, we can vote the bums out of their cushy federal offices!
We can persuade our state governments to defy the Feds in areas like health care—where the Constitution gives the Feds zero authority.
We can petition our state legislatures to threaten to amend the Constitution to abolish the income tax, return the selection of U.S. senators to state legislatures, and nullify all the laws the Congress has written that are not based in the Constitution.
One thing we can’t do is just sit back and take it.
His full article here: http://reason.com/archives/2009/11/16/kiss-your-freedoms-goodbye-if
annnnnnd more from John Charlton at Post & Email from last month "CONCRETE SUGGESTIONS TO UNDERMINE OBAMA’S POWER": http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/editorial-oct-19-2009-%e2%80%94-to-forestall-civil-war/
keep it local / stay involved / educate others / vote / pay least amount of taxes possible / "go galt".....
hugs!
LisaG
Don't forget to laugh either... EG think up new and silly nicknames for one who I call "PINO" (pres in name only) such as:
ReplyDelete"President Earflaps McSpendypants"
LOL... from comments at AmericanThinker.com
Trubolota said "You seek a painless victory. It is the fantasy you harbor"
ReplyDeletePainless? Sorry, no, no utopian here, I'll take one Thucydides over 100,000 Thomas Moore's any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I've seen SEIU up close, and I expect a long, tedious, demoralizing struggle. Oh well.
"Ideas without action, which is conviction, don't amount to anything."
I do believe I said that as well... yep, there it is: "Of course no idea is worth a damn without being tied to action..."
"I have not once suggested violence, yet you read that into what I write."
Hmmm... looks like I did... I leapt to that conclusion from your "There is no painless way to end this growing tyranny", but I'll match my assumption about you, with your assumption about me "You seek a painless victory. It is the fantasy you harbor." and call it even.
"... nothing will change because they fear losing what they have more than what they have already lost or will lose."
While there is plenty to suggest that, I don't believe that conclusion is fully warranted or irreversible... seems a bit too pat of an answer to me... sort of a "I'm right and you are wrong" sort of way of looking at things (I know, I know, I can be annoying).
"The ballot box is not an expression of freedom but has become an expression of self-indulgence."
It has, that is true. However, I think there's a sort of a Gresham's law aspect to that, in "Bad voting drives out good", reflected in the ever dwindling voting returns over the last several decades, commonly chalked up by the media to apathy, which I think is more due to disgust. There are large numbers of people who have decided to come in off the sidelines, who are looking for ways to get involved and reverse, or at least slow the tide. We'll see whether or not they can be organized into making an actual difference - and by 'organized', I don't mean in the leftist top down style, but from the inside out and up.
(Break - Sorry so long winded... I'm cursed)
(cont)
ReplyDeleteThere was an essay called Isaiah's Jobabout the "Remnant", that at the end of each age, there were a dispersed few, who all thought they were alone, who carried on and supplied the seeds for civilization to be reborn in future years. IMHO, we are the very first people in history, where what that "Remnant" knew and their times elites had discarded, is not only easily available to all (some of which can be found in a short list at the bottom of my latest post), but where in the past they were isolated and thought they were alone, we have this www doo-hicky... and it's beginning to be put into use.
We'll see.
"We are on the brink."
Definitely.
"When your choice is a socialist Democrat or a closet socialist Republican, the very idea you have a choice is fallacious."
Hence NY23... not an ideal, but crude as it was, we nearly pulled it off (yes, even from here in Missouri, for the first time in my life I actually took part in campaigning, calling into districts there, attempting to get people to vote for the conservative. I don't think a third party is wise or viable, but I don't mind making a very loud point), and that election still may not be over. I, and the Tea Party here in St. Louis are set on butt kicking the little 'r' republicans, and promoting the hell out of those who show a commitment to limited govt and fiscal responsibility... sure it's a long shot, but ... the option is...???
"I suspect our differences are about strategy and tactics and not philosophy. That's all right with me. It is a discussion conservatives must have."
Agreed.
"All I'm saying is that from all I have read, all I have learned and all I can reason, ideas are a seed, not the plant."
Yes, no rationalist, no libertarian, no Socratic "No one would knowingly do wrong" here. An idea not rooted in understanding and habit, will not turn a single person from their desires. If I gave the impression that I meant to knock on doors and say "Have you heard the word of Madison today?" and save the union... I assure you, I've nothing remotely similar in mind.
"If I am suggesting anything, it is to cut off the life blood of government, but not without a plan and an agreeed upon result."
Hmmm... a fine sentiment... needs a few details though, like what is the life blood? What is the plan? How is the targeted result agreed upon? And how do you convince others to follow along with it? Me thinks, that would lead you right back around to ideas, and they'll need to be sound... and I happen to know where a few good ones can be found... may be a few centuries old, but they shine up nicely.
;- )
Trubolotta said "... that the Gunslinger is a feisty trouble maker. Maybe that's why I keep coming back LOL!"
ReplyDeleteHear here!
;-)
Lisa G in NZ said "We can persuade our state governments to defy the Feds in areas like health care—where the Constitution gives the Feds zero authority. "
ReplyDeleteA related idea which I heard in a meeting with our Congressmen, Akin (one of the more consistent ones), was an idea from one of our State Senator's, still being hashed out, but the gist of it is to pass an amendment to our State Constitution, mandating that all citizens of our state be able to make their own health care and insurance choices. The idea being that that would create an immediate Federal/State conflict, which would send any bill that is passed on ice and right into the Supreme Court.
"One thing we can’t do is just sit back and take it."
You know it! Fight, and more, fight with a smile and laughter loud and clear (Oohhhh... they really hates that!)
Van, the life blood of government is green. The plan and agreed upon result would be expressed in a second Declaration of Independence. Hence the importance of retaining, without change, the final sentence of the original document.
ReplyDeleteTrubolotta said "Van, the life blood of government is green."
ReplyDeleteIt may seem like quibbling, but I'd say that Money is the circulatory system, the arteries, veins and capillaries, but power (the ability to effect behavior in other people that is preferred by the powerful), is the life blood... but I think it is a very important distinction to be made. But that being said, yes, blocking off that flow is critical to reigning in govt.
"The plan and agreed upon result would be expressed in a second Declaration of Independence."
Any general notions of what that would consist of?
"Hence the importance of retaining, without change, the final sentence of the original document. "
An important provision in any plan, to be sure... but it begs the question, and in absence of an answer it leads one to assume that the sentence previous to it is implied... and I don't see how that avoids my previous assumption about your position on bullets - which I'm not seeing as desirable, possible or practical.
My long term goal, is the repealing of the 16th and 17th amendments, and all of the agencies and regulatory gibberish associated with them. As well as scrapping every filthy piece of the public school system. Wayyyyy prior to that though, we will need to have a solid section of the populace (a majority isn't needed now, just as it wasn't needed, and didn't exist, in the Founders Revolutionary era), who understand not only the Constitution, but it's meaning, and what that meaning rests upon, Natural Law (without one frickin' nuance of Rousseau, Kant, Hegel, or Mill in sight), Property Rights, and Individual Rights. They will not only need to understand it, but make up a significant block (again, keeping in mind what I said about Power, they don't need to be a majority, only skilled) of those involved in the local, county, and statewide political scene.
Given the most ideal of circumstances and good fortune, that is likely at least a 15 year project. And I say that while keeping in mind several 60-90 day software projects I've worked on, that stretched out to a year and even several years duration.
Van, it again appears we have similar goals but let me clarify the questions you have raised and offer some opinions on the comments you have made.
ReplyDeleteMoney is power. Without it, there is no EPA, OSHA ADA, ATF, FCC, FBI, CIA, military, etc. As the money disappears, Congress must prioritize.
As to a Declaration of Independence, I would abide by the same principles our Founders chose to explain why we were doing what we will do and what must be done for reconciliation. Bullets are not necessary and I am not advocating force. In fact, I find it troubling that so many conservatives allude to armed conflict and their willingness to die (last resort) but not their willingness to face other deprivations for actions that may be far more effective and gain public sympathy.
My goals are similar to yours but also extend into legislation and the powers of the court. Yes, repeal the 16th and 17th Amendments, restore the population ratio our Founders established for representation in the House, but also repeal the enabling legislation for extra-constitutional and illegal agencies, such as EPA, DOE (both), ATF and others that by mutual agreement we believe are unconstitutional. What to do about courts tat interpret "living constitutions" must be addressed though I have no firm ideas on what to do about judicial usurpation.
Repeal McCain-Feingold. Repeal any and all Affirmative Action and Hate Crimes legislation. Enforce immigration laws and tighten restrictions on what are considered "undesirables".
It would be an interesting document, but it must be something that can win popular support and express its reasons and actions in few words. The philosophical underpinnings you mention must be very concisely yet convincingly stated.
As for a time frame, I don't know, but that will start to become clear once such a document is started.
Trubolotta said "Money is power."
ReplyDeleteAgain, close... very close, but no, it's not. It is what most often, 98.3% of the time determines how power will be exerted and where, but. it. is. not. power. The willingness of people to do, or not do, something, is power. Making that mistake is what cost the dem's so much of their legislative agenda and schedule this summer, they knew there was no real organized (in leftie think, that equals funded) opposition to their plans and bills.
The Tea Party movement sprouted across the country, not because of vast amounts of money being funneled into it (I'm sure our Gunslinger can give a hearty "Nada $ here!" to that), but because of people's ideas of what was, and was not, proper, being outraged. They were, because of their beliefs, unwilling to allow the legislation to go forwards without opposition.
If you think fighting what was to be a slam-dunk, done by early summer and built upon by fall agenda, back to a skin of the teeth vote (partially made possible through a tinkered election in NY23) to get it out of the house in Nov, and an equally difficult battle in the Senate just beginning - if you don't think that was an extraordinary exhibition of Power, predominantly unfunded, I don't know what to tell you.
"I find it troubling that so many conservatives allude to armed conflict and their willingness to die (last resort) but not their willingness to face other deprivations for actions that may be far more effective and gain public sympathy..."
As am I, and which is the reason I've been leaning towards expecting that to be the direction of your thoughts - very pleased to learn otherwise.
"also repeal the enabling legislation for extra-constitutional and illegal agencies"
Yep, which is what I meant by "... all of the agencies and regulatory gibberish associated with them...". I think an amendment needs to be passed along the lines of "Congress shall enable no agency or body to create or interpret regulations or codes having the force of law."
"What to do about courts tat interpret "living constitutions" must be addressed though I have no firm ideas on what to do about judicial usurpation."
I think that's a matter of hard fought and won education, I don't think we can pass any legalized artificial intelligence to mandate that - it needs to be a fiercely held principle of 'every' American, and the violation of which needs to cause a firestorm of outrage across the board. We can't legislate, we cannot produce a deterministic trigger, for what must be our own individual sense of morality.
"Repeal McCain-Feingold. Repeal any and all Affirmative Action and Hate Crimes legislation. Enforce immigration laws and tighten restrictions on what are considered "undesirables"."
Oh... Absolutely!
"It would be an interesting document, but it must be something that can win popular support and express its reasons and actions in few words. The philosophical underpinnings you mention must be very concisely yet convincingly stated."
That it would, and eventually, I think, will be... how to bring it about should be central to every Tea Party-ish organization and gathering out there. Who knows... this thread might just be part of the process that gets it rolling... that would be up to us!
Without money, government starts to shut down. I'm not talking about money for organizing, campaigning, advertising or lobbying. I'm talking about the money bureaucrats expect to get paid when they show up for work, shuffle papers, hound citizens, hug spotted owls, etc.
ReplyDeleteI'm listening to you on the issue of the courts, but here again the courts do as they please and public opinion, morality, education, outrage or whatever be damned. I don't oppose that in principle. I do oppose judges who exceed their constitutional authority or turn the constitution into a meaningless scrap heap of words they can twist any way they please. If we accept that the court has the final word on the constitution no matter how egregious that word is, then we have appointed tyrants with no recourse to remove them. Like I said, I'm stuck on this one but what we have cannot be allowed to stand. A few more Satomayer's and the constitution is toilet paper for Karl Marx.
I don't see the aforementioned points being any major obstacle to agreement. But it's not enough. Tea parties, town halls, faxes, e-mails, telephone calls are fine, but the House passed ObamaCare, the Senate will pass ObamaCare and a reconciliation bill will be passed and signed.
I have some ideas I need to put on paper. I'm sure we will talk again.
Trubolotta said "Without money, government starts to shut down. I'm not talking about money for organizing, campaigning, advertising or lobbying. I'm talking about the money bureaucrats expect to get paid when they show up for work, shuffle papers, hound citizens, hug spotted owls, etc."
ReplyDeleteOk, I do know what you're saying... and it'll nearly always prove a reliable rule of thumb... but there is a but hidden by it.
I'm probably beating this to death on a seeming technicality, and in most cases it would be... but... in those cases where it's not, the consequences can be huge. For instance... Bush holding the purse strings of the State dept, or CIA, and even having the 'power' to put in place their bosses, did not give him actual power over their actions and behavior, and he was undermined and thwarted by them.
When money comes into full conflict with deep seated beliefs... money loses.
Money is a tool... the tool doesn't rule. Money doesn't direct where it will be spent, people do, and where they direct it to be spent is guided by their ideas, fears and desires. Money is a tool of ideas.
Agreed, it is nearly always sufficient to say that Money is power, because nearly always peoples beliefs are weak, or not clearly held, or not in particular opposition to what the controller of the money is proposing, or already in full agreement or at least fully willing to comply with what the controller of the money directs them to do... but one person of character and principles, can gum up the whole works, if they choose to make a stand.
Money is not power, Power is power. True, nearly always, if you behave as if Money is Power, you won't be disappointed or surprised.
But.
When you always behave as if something that is not quite true, Is true, eventually you're going to get bitten by it, and it'll probably be at the worst possible time for you.
Ok, enough of that.
(break)
(cont)
ReplyDelete"... but here again the courts do as they please and public opinion, morality, education, outrage or whatever be damned."
Which is ultimately what I meant. When Oliver Wendell Holmes came to the law with the new proregressive ideas, his pragmatic, utilitarian, positivist views were still considered novelties. By the time he was appointed to the supreme court, they were still in the minority, but considered daring and 'smarter' than those who held more traditional opinions of the law, and by the end of his career, 'conservative' Justices such as the 'Four Horsemen', were the last of their kind.
That process in reverse, is what needs to happen, and it needs to happen in the schools, before it can fully take root. Our best bet is to work our asses off to make sure that those elected into positions of appointing justices, are not proregressives. If we are unbelievably lucky, we'll somehow avoid more Justices like Breyer, Ginsberg and Sotomayor... but I wouldn't count on it, and it's going to be awful dealing with their rulings. But even then, they will rule as they will rule, and those rulings will follow the ideas they believe in, not (as so many Presidents found to their dismay) who appointed them.
In the end, it is always ideas that rule.
Ultimately, if the Constitution is ever to be the supreme law of the land again, there are at least 150 years of judgments which will need to be overturned... hard to imagine how that will ever happen, but it's still worth working towards.
"I don't see the aforementioned points being any major obstacle to agreement."
Agreed, and even so, those obstacles are the means to better ideas, plans and actions.
"Tea parties, town halls, faxes, e-mails, telephone calls are fine, but the House passed ObamaCare, the Senate will pass ObamaCare and a reconciliation bill will be passed and signed."
Probably true on each count, but keep in mind, the activities should never be the point, in and of themselves, they are means to an end, tools (just like money (sorry, couldn't resist)) to craft real power, the kind that is built slowly, built with stirrings of ideas that begin to bind people to shared sentiments, convictions, actions and finally widespread expectations and demands.
Van, you are making this far more complicated and ideological than reality demands. To find the power, follow the money - backwards. Get to the source. Government has no more power than you, I and millions of Americans fund.
ReplyDeleteEven the brilliant Jefferson could not determine how to rein in the courts, but he at least had the wisdom to warn us of the danger. I thnk of his warning as a challenge to future generations. If left as is, the judicial tyrants win.
Activities are not the point but can be pointless if they accomplish nothing. When the political elite are intransigent in their beliefs, no idea or amount of talk will budge them. They have already determined in their minds that they are superior and dealing with a bunch of ranting children who are throwing a tantrum and can be safely ignored. Whether they call themselves Democrat or Republican, they view themselves as the parents of an unruly family with different ideas on how to maintain control.
That is what we are up against.
Trubollota said "...you are making this far more complicated and ideological than reality demands..."
ReplyDeleteI'll pass over the 'ideological', maybe you know it to be insulting, maybe you don't, maybe you don't know the difference between ideological and philosophical... since you refuse to examine the distinction and it's importance, it is likely the later and so there's no point my going further. Your characterization of "To find the power, follow the money - backwards. Get to the source. Government has no more power than you, I and millions of Americans fund.", will probably work fine for you 98% of the time. With any luck, when that unlooked for 2% prepares to blindside you with with a rabbit punch, someone who was able to see it coming will be there to fight 'em off until you regain your senses.
"Even the brilliant Jefferson could not determine how to rein in the courts, but he at least had the wisdom to warn us of the danger. I thnk of his warning as a challenge to future generations. If left as is, the judicial tyrants win."
We do have to stop them. Madison said something extremely relevant to our time in this portion of Federalist 62"It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed? "
"Activities are not the point but can be pointless if they accomplish nothing."
Very true, activities without purpose are pointless, and the purpose must be followed up with action, actions which have at least the potential of affecting votes and behavior.
"When the political elite are intransigent in their beliefs, no idea or amount of talk will budge them."
And then their every action must be opposed and fought to a standstill, visibly, vocally and unavoidably, whether by parliamentary procedures, counter amendments, recall or repeal petitions, defunding measures, etc, and ultimately those people must be removed.
Of course, none of those measures will be accomplished without convincing large numbers of people to support them, and for that, you need ideas that are convincingly argued... without that... your $ may buy bumper stickers, but not much else. Or from the govt side, without ideas that are communicated, understood and supported, and in the face of an opposition whose ideas are, for all of your well funded power, it may suffer the fate of legislation that is passed with great fanfare and ignored by the public and police as well, as was prohibition.
I still don't see how you're going to advance your position without force, if you are dismissing the reasoning I've indicated, and you haven't given any clue other than "money is power"... and unless you've got more than the govt can control, I don't see how that helps, unless, again, you take the unglamorous route I've mentioned.
But best of luck, if you get something useful going, I'll do my best to help it succeed.