Does anyone know what this symbol means, exactly?
I see it on "White Pride" websites, but no one explains it.
Is it a stylized version of the Iron Cross?
Has it been traditionally associated with the KKK or Neo-Nazis? It is a "tainted" symbol?
Or is it a newer rune, harking back to the "Northern Tribes" and really means "pride", not "supremacy".
And further, is "White Supremacy" a media-invented concept, designed to malign White Pride...to portray it as "racist"?
I am investigating the "Dark Side of the 'Net". I've learned that so much I think I know—that I've been brainwashed to believe—is lies, that I no longer trust my assumptions about certain things. And I'm determined to find out if "traditional wisdom" about dirty, lowdown white supremacists is as false as so much else.
Being weak and poor and few and voiceless and probably ignorant and emotional and unsophisticated...at least in the main...I wonder how much they've been defined and defamed by their enemies with their bully pulpits, media empires, money, style, finesse, power and global agendas.
I wonder how many whites, impotently furious about what they saw as the destruction of their culture, the invasion of and offenses against their country and heritage, but without nuanced, sophisticated and erudite communication skills, used unfortunate, insensitive language from the heart...and got hoist by their own petard, with the help of smug and gloating enemies educated at the schools of the elite.
I wonder who owns the truth...the brash and foolish, heartbroken and angry voices in the wilderness...or the comfortable, pampered, approved purveyors of political correctness.
Let's see, shall we? Ready for the journey?
The Gunslinger
You might want to look at this post, especially the links at the bottom. Charles at Little Green Footballs has been looking into this for some time, in another context (whether it is smart to ally with these guys against the Islamification of europe.)
ReplyDeletehttp://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=28036_IBA-_Vlaams_Belang_David_Duke_and_a_White_Europe&only
Gunslinger'S Journal: A Journey Into Darkness? >>>>> Download Now
Delete>>>>> Download Full
Gunslinger'S Journal: A Journey Into Darkness? >>>>> Download LINK
>>>>> Download Now
Gunslinger'S Journal: A Journey Into Darkness? >>>>> Download Full
>>>>> Download LINK 8e
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHooray! A question I can answer!
ReplyDeleteThe symbol you've posted is called a Wotan's Cross. There are many variants, but they are all derivative from one symbol. All cross-and-circle symbols are based upon the male and female symbolism of cosmic union. A version of Wotan's Cross can be found in depictions of the Pre-Vedic version of Kali, and in her hands symbolizes Earth.
Strangely enough, the modern White Supremacy movement has adopted plenty of ancient symbology, none of which is indicative of their cause. The Cross Patee, commonly known as the "Iron Cross," was an oft-used symbol in medieval heraldry, as it marks a distinct blending of Wotan's Cross and the Christian (or Latin) Cross. In Northern Europe, it was generally used as the symbol of the god Frey.
Both the Crux Dissimulata and the "modern" Swastika (common icons in White Supremacy groups) are variations on the ancient Celtic swastika iconography which represents the Four Winds or the anthromorphosized spirits thereof. However, the swastika proper has been used in religious iconology since at least 10,000 BCE and is the symbol that represents the Sanskrit word for "so be it" or "amen." It has appeared on the oldest found coinage in India, on images of the Buddha in Japan, and on Greek and Roman figures of the Great Goddess. On artifacts dating from the 13th century BCE onward, the swastika has been found in Asia Minor, Greece, China, Libya, Persia, Scandinavia, Britain, and Iceland.
The Wolf's Cross, also popular in White Supremacy iconology, was a Nordic calendrical sign that represented the first month of each new year.
The swastika was actually Mediterranean in origin, not Celtic, and is still mainly used in Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism to evoke "sacred force."
DeleteThanks zukworld, I'll check it out!
ReplyDeleteDaughter, Zounds! You're full of useful and interesting information!
Are you Asatru??
(That rhymes!)
I'm afraid I'm not on the ball enough today to respond in rhyming kind....
ReplyDeleteNo, not Asatru, though my eldest daughter's circle has taken a Nordic pantheon. I'm just a silly old witch.
:-)
zukworld,
ReplyDeleteI went to LGF and strangely, read a lot of name-calling, but not much substance.
They seem to be really against the idea of whites wanting a homeland that is not overpopulated with other races.They seem to feel that this desire is, in itself "racist".
Actually, they throw the word "racist" around almost as much as Liberals, and that rather bothers me.
Rather than taking a close look at the actual positions of the parties and people they condemn, they seem to be just accepting the commonly held, "liberal media" definitions of them as true.
They were really outraged by one the the parties (sorry, don't remember which) who didn't want to sign on to the 60th anniversary condemnation of the Jewish Holocaust.
I guess it could be anti-semitism. But why such a morbid, continuous, focus on it to the exclusion of any other historical outrage? We don't have annual ceremonies and condemnations of Stalin's millions of victims, or Mao's, or Pol Pot's, or Kim Jong Il's.
I don't mean to minimize the horror, but, ...what makes the Jewish Holocaust so much more meaningful, horrible, memorable than the others? Why is it a bigger tragedy when Jews die? How many Holocaust Museums ARE there now? Where are the monuments, memorials, ceremonies and museums for all those others?
It's distinctly odd.
Hitler wasn't any more monstrous than Stalin or the rest. And, you know, WWII was not all about the Jews. And yet, "death camps" is the first, last, and pretty much the only thing we think about WWII anymore.
And now that I think about it, that's damned odd too.
I'm not anti-Semitic...but I think there may be more to this than meets the eye, and I think that LGF is too knee-jerk in their responses to cast a cool eye on the subject.
THE 14 WORDS
Delete"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children." -David Lane
Any questions? Read;
"DECEIVED DAMNED & DEFIANT; THE REVOLUTIONARY WRITINGS OF DAVID LANE"
===== Mighty Whitey
I am not a "White Supremacist", but I am sure as hell a "White Seperatist"! I cannot fault anyone, of any race that loves his own kind. Pride in one's heritageis is a result of a positive racial/national identity. Proud people are secure in who they are. They do not take to subjugation, & will fight to maintain their existence. The tyrant finds them difficult to control. A population without identity & pride in themselves is easily subjugated. Forced racial integration will become racial interbreeding, especially when the tyrant's social engineers, thru his puppet media, indoctrinates the populace to regard racial interbreeding as not only normal, but desirable. This is racial suicide, for ANY race.
DeleteWitness Nature; Crows & Hawks are birds, yet they do not"integrate", they maintain their uniqueness, their identity, their "race" by remaining voluntarily seperate. If somehow forced to integrate, there will be conflict. The only way to maintain their kind will be to fight. To each, the only option will be the total subjugation of the other. Since each has "identity", neither will not tolerate oppression or "assimilation". Unless they can be seperated, there will be no peace. One will win, one will lose. The losers must escape & find a place for themselves if they are to survive. If they cannot, or will not, they will be exterminated. Can you say "ethnic cleansing"?
------ Mighty Whitey
Hi Mighty Whitey....nice to see this discussion is still drawing interest. It's been a while. Welcome.
Deletezukworld,
ReplyDeleteUpdate!
I checked out Gates of Vienna, the "enemy" in the LGF posts and comments about the Conference in Europe...
...and it's amazing how different the subject appears through their lens.
I must say, their take on it seems the more rational.
Just FYI.
I'm with GOV on this one. LGF seems to be a bunch of knee-jerk trash talkers mostly. GOV has more rational thinking.
ReplyDeleteThe subject of a "white homeland" does trouble me abit...I think that the Europeans have a right to defend their homeland from mass immigration and attempt to protect their culture, and I support that.
However, not to sound "multi-culti", but OUR nation is a product of immigration and the people that come here don't come here...or at least they didn't used to come here to start a new racially or culturally biased homeland. This country is great because of principles not race. We have created our own culture out of the multiple and varied cultures that emigrated here. Those that call themselves Americans and are patriots come from all colors. I'm not an apologist, because I never committed all the "atrocities" on the natives or the blacks in this country. If you're an American (and I mean someone who believes in this country and what it's founded on), that's all that matters.
My 2 cents.
Just to clarify, Illegal immigration and the invasion from the south (read: Mexico) They are not Americans. They don't meet the criteria.
ReplyDeleteJust don't want you to misunderstand where I'm coming from.
Good post though!
Good to see you read the GoV piece about LGF. If you read anything on LGF about Europe, you'll see they really don't like the Europeans, don't have any sympathy for them. Seems kinda heartless to me.
ReplyDeleteAbout the symbol, you'll also see a straighter variant known as the Celtic Cross. It's probably most notorious for its use on the 'evil, racist, neo-nazi' White Pride site Stormfront, which gets a lot more bad press than it deserves, IMHO. Sure, they're all White Nationalists, but they're not all the same. Hell, they're not even all National Socialists, there's a lot of different sorts there, and it's a good place to find things out. I only say this cause I've been pretty much where you are now, and I found it real helpful in figuring stuff out and finding out just how much of the 'truth' I thought I knew was straight-up lies, so I figured I should talk it up a bit here for you, Gunslinger, in case it helps you some.
Oh yeah, a few other things, apparently not all Asatru are WN. Don't make much sense to me, but there ya go. Probably worth knowing.
Also, the Celtic Cross cannot be legally displayed in Germany along with a whole load of other symbols. When I find the link again, I'll post it for you here. It's interesting to see how paranoid the German government is about suppressing a Nazi resurgence. I mean, if Nazism is so obviously repugnant to everyone and the Germans are being treated well by their government, why would there be a danger of the rise of Nazism?
Found the link. Click here to see it. That red writing across the symbols? That reads 'strafbar', which means 'punishable'.
ReplyDeleteIt's always been my contention that America is not a place, but an IDEA. I've written here about it, and have said that no matter who you are, or where you come from, it you believe in the IDEA, you're an American.
ReplyDeleteI saw us as different from Europe in that regard. An Englishman is English by "blood". An American is an American by virtue of commitment and fidelity to an IDEA (way of life and living.)
And it has worked for us all these years. As we assimilated immigrants from all over the world, they all became Americans.
But, realistically, most of those immigrants were from Europe. They had the same basic ideals and background and history as us. The transition was seamless. It came "naturally". Fundamental religious ideas, work ethic, general history, family structure, VALUES...were pretty much the same.
And every one of them (us) made a commitment to forsake our conflicting ethnic uniqueness in order to blend into a new people.
Because we had more similarities than differences, and willingly gave up the differences for the opportunity to become a NEW THING...an AMERICAN...it worked!
But, when Hmong, and Vietnamese, and Africans and West Indians, and Caribbeans, and Mexicans, and Muslims came, clinging to their cultures, languages, prejudices, and traditions and identifying first with them, rather than with White America's...all that began to break down.
Our differences are greater than our similarities. And the demand for recognition and accommodation has created the insane multi-culti hostilities and balkanization we see forming today.
The more we "celebrate" our differences...the more we find to dislike about each other.
It has always been thus. At every fault line between cultures, races or ethnicities there is hostility and often violence.
French/English Canada; Basques/Spanish; Flemish/Belgians; Kurds/Shiites/Sunnis; Catholics/Protestants; Indians/Spanish (Mexico); Chechneya/Russians; Turks/Greeks; Jews/Muslims; every fucking tribe in Africa vs every other fucking tribe in Africa; Mexicans/Blacks in L.A.; Blacks/Koreans; Blacks/Whites.
When minorites are small, peace reigns, but the closer different groups get to parity, the worse the violence, hostility and competition becomes.
This seems to be borne out by history. So, the idea that large masses of different races will somehow defy human nature in America seems naive to the point of cultural suicide.
I don't hate anybody else's race or color or culture, I just don't want my own diluted or fractured by theirs.
If there were any examples, in all of history, where equal groups of different races shared a homeland in peace and brotherhood, I'd be willing to give it a try. But I don't think there has never been a single one, ever.
When there are enough Chinese here to legalize eating dogs and cats, that will not be OK with me. When there are enough Mexicans here to institute a national holiday celebrating "victory" at the Alamo, that will not be OK with me. When there are enough Muslims here to legislate that no alcohol will be sold during Ramadan...that will not be OK with me. When enough practitioners of Voodoo can use "freedom of religion" to legalize animal sacrifice...THAT WILL NOT BE OK WITH ME!
But that is the sort of immigrant/invader that is coming to live in America...that our government, and too many "tolerant" Americans are encouraging and welcoming.
And it makes me crazy. So, in the end, I guess I've lost the lovin' feeling, and faith in the idea that being an American is just about the IDEA...and come to believe it IS about race and history, and shared backgrounds values, religion, and worldviews.
We are a nation of immigrants. And until 1967, we were a nation of WHITE EUROPEAN immigrants. And it is becoming clear to me that THAT is why it worked.
And why it ISN'T working now.
If I'm wrong...and I hope I am, I'll be as happy as I can be. But I afraid, because I'm thinking we're getting dangerously close to a tipping point after which there will be no stepping back from the brink.
So...that's what I think I think at the moment. Which, I understand, makes me a racist xenophobe. Sigh.
You have seen The Light! Read "The 88 Precepts" by David Lane and watch David Duke's videos on youtube. They're very informative on this subject. Your ancestors would want you to stand proud and stand up for your heritage, culture and race. Many of them died for that very cause and we are here today because of that. It's a tradition that we must pass on to our own children. It is racial survival.
Delete"I guess it could be anti-semitism. But why such a morbid, continuous, focus on it to the exclusion of any other historical outrage? We don't have annual ceremonies and condemnations of Stalin's millions of victims, or Mao's, or Pol Pot's, or Kim Jong Il's.
ReplyDeleteI don't mean to minimize the horror, but, ...what makes the Jewish Holocaust so much more meaningful, horrible, memorable than the others? Why is it a bigger tragedy when Jews die? How many Holocaust Museums ARE there now? Where are the monuments, memorials, ceremonies and museums for all those others?"
************************
A huge part of modern Jewish identity is wrapped up around the Holocaust, and we're taught both to never forget, and to never let others forget. We're just well organized when it comes to getting our point across. Jews wouldn't be upset if others wanted to commemorate their own Holocausts. We'd probably be more sympathetic than others.
I can imagine some Jews saying the WW2 Jewish Holocaust was worse than others because 1/3 of all Jews were killed, but on an individual level, I doubt that you'll find many Jews who feel that the death of someone in Darfur or Cambodia is less of a tragedy than the death of a Jew.
Read or listen to David Duke's book "Jewish Supremecism" (he gives it away free in mp3 format, you just have to search for it).
DeleteOh Steve, I can totally understand how Jews would consider it the worst crime of all time, totally natural. Completely tops Rome, Babylon and Herod.
ReplyDeleteAnd I can understand how the Germans might feel that way too, out of collective guilt.
But how did everybody else come to think of it that way, to the near exclusion of so many other equally horrible examples of genocide?
I think it's that "organization" and ability to get the point across that has some people paranoid.
Given the incredible success in defining history and the dialogue, in impressing the collective mind of the world, some see that level of "power" as...well, dangerous.
They wonder how so relatively few people wield such power to determine the opinions of the entire world.
And it's a natural progression to: "What else am I being taught to think by these same powerful opinion makers?"
And paranoia ensues.
Is it still paranoia if someone really is out to get you?
ReplyDeleteMjolnir, I've seen someone argue that we are a nation that was colonized by English and European people, not a nation that is a product of immigration, and certainly not immigrants from many different countries.
ReplyDeletePat Buchanan writes:
"America was settled by colonists from the British Isles. In 1789, two centuries after Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, we were 99 percent Protestant. Until the Irish came in 1845, there was almost no immigration. Even during the Great Wave of 1890-1920, the number of immigrants was a fraction of the 38 million here today. And all had come from Europe. By 1960, we were almost 90 percent European and more than 90 percent Christian -- of one nationality, American, one language, English, and one culture."
I get little of the "Nation of Immigrants" idea from this, in the sense of welcoming disparate cultures who all jumped into the melting pot and came out Americans. Diversity is our strength, tra la la.
We've been overwhelmingly European until the Immigration Act of 1963, was it? And the onslaught of illegals.
Gunslinger, on the point of the voiceless white supremacists, I was interested in a recent Frontline (or some such program) story about skinheads. It devoted much time to the topic but it did not devote one second to any discussion of WHY any of the skinheads (now getting away from the skinhead look, btw) were angry about anything. All one could do after the program was to say, "Gosh, those people are really angry about something and it's really interesting to see with whom they are associating and what kind of behaviors they are engaging in."
Col B. et al, I'm immersed in the reading. I think I'm learning more than I wanted to know.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure where it's taking me, but I'm afraid of some of it.
If these people are half right...we're fucked.
And if they're not...there are a WHOLE lot of crazy white people on the loose.
The whole subject is turning my mind inside out.
Gunslinger, regarding the nod to Little Green Footballs, I was only pointing to the collection of links in the main post, as a quick way to jump into a bunch of related stuff.
ReplyDeleteI almost never read comments on any blog as they almost universally degenerate into name calling and "me too"-ism. Many of the comments seem to be written by someone who didn't even bother to read the posts!
Charles, the guy who IS LGF has done some really good work on media bias, Iraq war, GWoT, etc. I've been reading him for a couple of years and can't recall much name calling, usually he just allows the subject's own words to make the point. As for his commentors, never read them.
Best,
z
Zuk,
ReplyDeleteGood point. You are right without doubt. But MY blog isn't like that! Some of the best work here are the comments!
I'm spoiled, and I expect the same excellence elsewhere. Silly me!
Hey Gunslinger.
ReplyDeleteI just found this looking for Odin's Cross images to use in designing my own logos and jacket patchwork.
To your comment 6/12/07 7:26 PM that was great. It perfectly sums up what I see as White Nationalism versus White Power/Supremacy. I agree with those who say WP is contrary to WN and especially damaging to it.
"If these people are half right...we're fucked."
Like they say in politics, "All news is good news" The more the media attacks and slanders the WN movement, the more will join us on this path of self-discovery. Also it's great advertising of a local group's existance. It's always a minority that will investigate the truth behind the propaganda, but as more people like you investigate and see the truth...even if it's a rocky journey...and personalize the issue, the faster the snowball will build until it becomes a full-blown avalanche.
My main peeves with WN is in regards to the women. Even in their own videos, a lot are shown as butchy feminist types rather than beautiful, feminine, wholesome, family-oriented women. Also I (almost) never see any of them pictured with their children. If the destruction of the White People is such a concern, what are they doing to combat it. Seems to me an air of hypocrisy with a lot of talk, posturing, partying and "being a rebel" rather than taking serious action.
All for now
Proverbs,
ReplyDeleteThe recent exposure of the "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright and his anti-American and anti-White racist rantings have added an ugly layer to the discussion.
The way Big Media is stepping on eggshells not to indict Obie as they have other politicians for completely minor "racial" mis-statements...is dangerous.
It adds to the fuel of White Rage, which people like us are trying to quell for the more civilized goals of White Survival, Pride, and Nationalism.
Sigh...
There was a time I thought Black Separatists were our natural allies, as White Separatists and Black have the same goal. Or so I thought. The difference is I'm not a homicidal maniac...and don't wish for the death or destruction of the Black race. I'm just ok with them having their own country and us having ours. And being happy, peaceful neighbors, with all the international agreements and cooperation we have with other countries made up of difference races, like Japan and the Philipines, and South Korea, etc.
Why is that so hard? Why does HATE have to be part of the process?
It makes me so tired.
As for the WN women and the culture, it's still a "fringe" group that doesn't attract "regular folks" yet. They ARE rebels who don't care what people think. They don't have serious jobs and careers and businesses that depend on the understanding and goodwill of the general public.
Until that happens, the lives and lifestyles of WN will be the sort that "have nothing to lose".
I don't see how it can be otherwise in our present culture.
Unless you are too poor to have anything to lose, or so rich it doesn't matter, you have to consider how the public (idiots that they are) perceive you.
It's not going to help Whites if a lot of us lose our livelihoods because of misunderstandings and social intolerance of true diversity.
Until WN is understood and accepted as a legitimate goal among thinking and reasonable people, the only examples will be those for whom the extreme is the norm.
To our last I feel I should post this response I received from a local group.
ReplyDelete"To answer some of your questions:
Our organization is full of "real feminine Aryan Women", we have several mothers, mothers to be, and overall beautiful Aryan women; something we tend to do with our website pictures though, is block out the faces of those women; we have to be concerned with their saftey.
As for your mention about women with their children, posting images or videos of white nationalist women with their children raises many, many complications. We know a few people personally who have had legal and child services issues concerning their children because of their beliefs; we do what we can to avoid such complications. We are a family, and as a family we have to put women and children first, before a little positive media."
Damned Catch 22 - picturing these cause problems for the individuals, not doing so perpetuates the negative image and discourages supporters; the point of course.
I hope this helps others in our position see the light and journey out of darkness.
Child services tries to take children away from parents based on their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIn America.
There is a breaking point. I wonder if the "Liberal" Fascists know that.
They forget. We have all the guns.
its amazing that people posting here can quote ancient writings about this symbol and use terms like racist which did not exist before the soviet revolution, the concept of racism was created by leon trotsky to attack the White Power structure when it was realized that the White majority would not embrace the peoples collective. i am glad Stalin had him hunted down and beaten with the sharp side of an axe. I have to laugh when I see stupid idiots carrying a red banner proclaiming they are sharp I think of yeah you've had a lot of sharp followers as far as the flags with the Wording White Pride WorldWide I got tired of a supplier ripping me off on plain black flags with a White Celtic cross so I asked a different one to make the flag, I sent a White pride patch as a sample of what the cross should look like and some little Chinese guy in Communist China didnt understand and made the White Pride flag instead of a plain flag then when it sold the others all copied it. So there is your BIg nazi conspiracy. www.flagdealer.com
ReplyDeleteYou may want to check this out if you really want to know what that symbol is about.
ReplyDeleteZeitgeist, The Movie - Remastered / Final Edition
You can find it on Google videos as youtube has banned it.
The whole thing gets a bit artsy but it is LOADED with good info.
Just make sure you have the time to focus on the video and choose what you will take as truth and what you will not.
NOTE: You may think that there is fomething wrong with the video when you first start it. There isnt.
Best of luck in your search for truth. Understand that once you learn something, you can not unlearn it.
Thanks, Bronson. I'll check it out.
ReplyDeleteits Odin's cross.
ReplyDeleteNorse god. it symbolizes nearly the same thing as the iron cross.
take it from me, i know all about it. its branded on my chest.
Bronson here. Did you ever check that out?
ReplyDeleteIts Odins cross and many other things but it all boils down to one thing.
I hope you will take the time to look up the video I posted the name of for you.
Traditionally, that symbol was known as Odin's Cross, and then later as the Celtic Cross. In the issue of race, it's a general racist symbol often meaning "White Pride." Sometimes this accompanies the number sequence 1488.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Hate Symbols archive at archive.adl.org:
"First popularized by the Ku Klux Klan, the symbol was later adopted by the National Front in England and other racists such as Don Black on his Web site, Stormfront, and the racist band Skrewdriver to represent international "white pride." It is also known as Odin’s Cross. It is important to note that the Celtic Cross is used widely today in many mainstream and cultural contexts. No one should assume that a Celtic Cross, divorced from other trappings of extremism, automatically denotes use as a hate symbol."
Gunslinger'S Journal: A Journey Into Darkness? >>>>> Download Now
ReplyDelete>>>>> Download Full
Gunslinger'S Journal: A Journey Into Darkness? >>>>> Download LINK
>>>>> Download Now
Gunslinger'S Journal: A Journey Into Darkness? >>>>> Download Full
>>>>> Download LINK 6X